The Castle Rock MARE-TERNITY WARD

Message Boards => Follow Our Growing Foals => Topic started by: Carly Rae on December 09, 2017, 03:16:07 AM

Title: Moo
Post by: Carly Rae on December 09, 2017, 03:16:07 AM
Hi!
Thought I'd post a topic for Moo, shes 12 days old now and doing really well.

I am looking for some pointers though. I think Moo sees us as apart of her 'herd' and wants to play with us. Nothing she does looks aggressive in any way, but she tries to bite when I pat her, kicking is still a big thing but is slowly getting better, and she has started to run up and rear at us with her mouth open.

I don't want to encourage it, but don't know how to go about it. I've tried to just shoo her away and stomp my foot as soon as she rears at me, but it doesn't get the message through that I'm not playing and she keeps coming back. Also shes really bad for kicking Willow too.

Any suggestions how I should react when she rears up at me, kicks and bites?

I've never had a foal that has acted this way, but then again I have never handled foals when they were born as much as I did with Moo. So I guess its a mistake on my behalf, but I need to try stop it, she hasn't hurt me yet but I assume she will when shes bigger.
If I were to put them in a paddock of their own and limit our contact with her for a while and just let her be a horse, would that help at all?

On the bright side, shes super cute!
 
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Chanda on December 09, 2017, 09:48:14 AM
Some what normal behavior, and you're right, you don't want to encourage it and you need to find a way to discourage it that doesn't look like play to Moo.   You can try responding with "uh uh" in a growly tone or telling her "quit".  (I prefer not to use "no" as it sounds to much like WHOA).
Monte kicked me every day for two weeks when he was around 2-3 weeks old, it ended almost as fat as it started.
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: dcwolcott on December 09, 2017, 10:03:15 AM
You're totally right, she VERY cute!

Kind of normal for some foals, and she'll likely grow out of it.  I actually "popped" a foal's muzzle with a stern "STOP" to get one of mine to move on from nipping.  Took a while, and wasn't really hard -- just surprising.

You did nothing wrong, by the way.  Playing with her is great for socialization.  Then, you watch Willow.  When she gets tired of being kicked -- which at this point she knows is common -- she'll teach little Moo not to do it, and she probably won't be as gentle as you are.  Mares have a great way of teaching their youngsters to behave.

Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Holly on December 10, 2017, 03:04:03 PM
I feel your pain. Had a Welsh foal that thought it was fun to sneak up bite and run off kicking. Once I learned his game.. I had an elbow ready that he smacked his own face on. That was the end of his game. I try to let them teach their self by providing the opportunity.. however I've been known to pop and holler attttt!. I've even followed it up with a squeal and a fake kick.some f oals are just a bit more determined than others. I make sure they know they are allowed to approach me nice but not with attitude. Try to mimic what mares do.
She sure is cute!!
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Carly Rae on December 11, 2017, 12:49:48 AM
I'm glad to hear that its something that wont be ongoing (hopefully)! Thanks for the help   ;D

Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Ryan on December 11, 2017, 05:47:31 PM
Agree that she is Super cute :)

Willow will only tolerate so much from Moo until she decides she has had enough.

She will grow out of it , you just need to take extra care in the meantime :)

Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Carly Rae on February 18, 2018, 10:29:27 PM
Thought I'd do an update on Moo, or as we call her "Missy Moody".  :)
She's still very cheeky, but has definitely settled with her kicking, rearing and biting. She looks quite ugly at the moment, she's shedding her light winter coat and she is a dark browney-grey underneath.

I am also wanting your opinions (again).
When is the absolute earliest you'd wean your foals?
I'm asking because Willow is still not doing so well. I have spent hundreds on feeds and supplements for her, but she is still very thin and is just not herself. She is getting fed 3 times a day with unlimited grass, yet she isnt gaining any weight and still has very little energy. Moo is almost 3 months old now, she is very independent she will leave Willows sight for hours until she wants a feed.

I just want opinions on how early I could take her off Willow. I'm just worried about Willows health at the moment, I hate seeing her like this. But I also don't want to affect Moo's health by taking her away too early.

Here's some pics of the little girly!
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Chanda on February 18, 2018, 10:45:07 PM
If Willow is really being drug down by Moo, 3 months is an ok time to wean, 4-5 months would be better, but we don't want to hurt Willow's health.
What does Willow eat besides unlimited grass?  Lucerne would be very good for her, good protein and calorie level.
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Carly Rae on February 18, 2018, 11:29:16 PM
She's on a mix of Maxi Soy (High protein) and EasiSport (Energy) Plus an EVM Supplement. I have recently bought her "Pony Mixture" which is oat and grain free, it has lucerne chaff and Koola Blend pellets and its high protein and energy, I mix them all and split them into 3 meals.  With it I give her Rhodes grass which she doesn't eat much at all. I may have to go grab some lucerne tomorrow for her.

If I wean Moo early, should I be feeding her anything?
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Chanda on February 19, 2018, 12:09:30 AM
Yes, Moo should be on something.  I'm not sure what is recommended in Australia.  I feed the foals a growth formula or mare/foal formula. It's best if Moo is started on it before weaning, so she is used to it.  Perhaps, Ryan will chime in with a recommendation.
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Carly Rae on February 19, 2018, 12:17:55 AM
Great thanks.
I have used "Mare n Foal" and "Breeda" before, so I could grab a bag of that or something.  :)
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: dcwolcott on February 19, 2018, 10:32:03 AM
I always fed Alfalfa hay, because it gives the protein boost and is a tummy soother too.  For those with loss of weight, I kept it in front of them at all times, especially overnight.

I agree, 3 months is fine, as I always did mine at 4 months, but had to remove a foal at 2 months because of ill health of the momma.  Baby did just fine.  Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Rocklone on February 19, 2018, 09:10:32 PM
I cant really comment cause my climate is so different (i had to take charm and goldie off pasture to get weight OFF then make sure foals got enough to supplement) but it sits a bit wrong for me to take a foal off a mare any sooner than at LEAST 6-7 months just for psychological reasons.

The grass she is eating, is it dry and more like bad hay? Just cause its in the ground doesnt mean it is good. I would try and find some good nutrient hay/haylage. Top it up with grass nuts soaked, micronised linseed will add some fat and oils needed. atm all she needs is calories added to the fibre shes already getting...even vegetable oil will help.

I would take the foal off her for a few hours a day, feed it whatever it is having etc then let her back as infrequent meals will naturally slow the mares  milk flow so basically early natural weaning but also not.
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Ryan on February 20, 2018, 06:25:25 PM
Thanks for the update Carly. This is a bit of a tricky situation for you.  Willow already having a lamanitic episode will make it hard for you in regards to feed.

In regards to little MOO , If willow is struggling keeping weight on , then we need to concentrate on her and it may be time to start thinking of weaning.

How often is moo nursing ? 

For Moo, Breeda and mare and foal are both great. I would be mixing it with a little lucerne ( Alfalfa) and some plain grass hay.

For Willow , You should try "zero" or "cool" which are both sugar free feeds for lamanitic horses. You could try mixing them with some chaffe ( Just introduce it slowly into her feeding regime)

Id say yes to Lucerne  any day, but seeing how bad her laminitis was , I would be concerned it would be adding to the issue and that she would have another episode..

What other kinds of Hay can you get  ? Try and see if you can get a "Grass and clover blend" probably a little lower in sugar than lucerne but higher in protein than plain grass hay.

Hope this is of some help.
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Carly Rae on February 20, 2018, 10:42:18 PM
All grass here is lush and green due to all of our rain. I probably should have mentioned my concern about laminitis.
I have been a bit cautious on what I feed her, she has had a bit of lucerne here and there, but the vet said to avoid it so I haven't fed it continuously. Although her weight kept dropping which is why I added the Pony mix which has lucerne chaff in it along with other things. Ill also grab some oils for her while I'm out.

I haven't really took notice on how much Moo nurses, she leaves Willow's sight for quite a while, she wanders down the back and eats behind the shed alone where Willow has no sight of her, then she will come back for a feed and leave again.

I've never heard of "zero" or " cool" before, however the Maxi Soy I have her on now is sugar free with a big fat "Laminitis safe feed" stamp on the front. Might be easier just to keep her on the same feed.

The 2 easiest types of hay to get are Lucerne and Oaten, cheap too, then theres barley and wheaten, but I have been advised to stay away from all those and if any, use lucerne.
I have never heard of a "Grass and clover blend" at all. Is there another word for clover? I can get a "Rhodes and green panic" bale? Theres also like 60/40 Grass/Lucerne mixes too. I could possibly get a bale of lucerne and mix it with my rhodes grass (I recently bought 15 bales of rhodes) so it isnt just straight lucerne?
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Chanda on February 20, 2018, 11:44:07 PM
Rhodes is usually low carb, it's a grass hay; we don't have Rhodes in the states, so I can only guess it's lower in protein than Lucerne, since it's a grass hay.
Lucerne is usually low carb, it's a legume, and has good protein and calorie level.  However, some laminitic horses are sensitive to it, so just be careful and use it sparingly.
Do no use oaten, wheaten or barley hay for a laminitis prone horse, all have too high a carb level and could cause a major episode.
Beet pulp is a safe calorie source for laminitic horses.  I believe in Australia you have access to Speedibeet, micro-beet  and fiber-beet.  I know speedibeet and microbeet are just beet pulp products, I don't know if fiber-beet has other additives.    Beet pulp should be soaked, for one it usually makes it more palatable.
The Maxi-soy is safe for laminitics, but might lack something she needs.  [I can't get soyhull products here, so really don't know that much about them, other than they are pretty safe to feed.]
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Ryan on February 21, 2018, 04:51:52 PM
At best i would be sticking to the low Carb hay and adding a tiny bit of Lucerne hay into it. Yes both Zero and cool are both laminitis safe feeds , so you may as well stick to the Maxi soy. There is one product I would recommend you have a look at. "Gumnuts" by Mitavite is specifically designed for the older horse and pony and when I agisted years ago , the lady who owned the property had a very old arab mare. She was aged and began to drop weight so we started to feed her "gumnuts" and it did help to put weight on.

I probably sound like a broken record, but that lush green grass is the worst thing possible for willow. Unfortunately once a horse has had a bout of laminitis they are prone to it.

It makes it even harder for you Carly with the tropical weather you get. My "Caution " times here each year are at the start of spring when the heat arrives into the ground and also as the weather starts to cool down and the mildew arrives with the cooler nights.

With your weather up there, "When it rains" "it rains " then you have the constant humidity and heat.

As Willow is feeding for two , I would seriously consider weaning moo off her and see how she does regarding her weight. Some mares just cannot provide the nutrients for both themselves and little one as they get on in age :)



Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Carly Rae on February 21, 2018, 07:57:50 PM
I only use rhodes because it was recommended by my vet when Willow was really fat as it is a dry, low sugar grass hay. I just use it still cause all my other horses are fat and dont need anything fancy. But I'm happy to get Willow anything, I have never touched oaten, wheaten or barley for Willow.
I have been told by the produce store people that Maxi Soy is very similar to Speedibeet, just Maxi Soy is the cheaper option (half the price), so it could lack some things that could be beneficial for her like you said.

Ill have a look at them all when I go in and see which one is best.  :)

We have been getting rain all week here its crazy! It goes super hot, to freezing cold, it feels like the middle of winter here. It has been really difficult because Willow is SO fussy, now that everything is green I don't let her on the grass too much so I have to lock her up and feed her, but at times she wont eat what I give her and she will constantly neigh at me because shes hungry...
I just want my old bug back, shes not the same since Moo. We will get there eventually though  :)
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Ryan on February 26, 2018, 04:56:13 PM
Rhodes is good , I am using it myself for the minis at the moment.

 Until Moo has been weaned , your really not going to see a great deal of improvement. Once she is eating for herself , she will pick up :)
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Ryan on March 01, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
Hows willow going Carly ? I see its been bucketing down up there !!
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Carly Rae on March 20, 2018, 05:48:07 AM
We did get A LOT of rain here, although no where near as much as Townsville! The rain here was much needed though, soon it will be winter and very little rain  :(

Willow has made such an improvement in weight, Moo has been off her for 2 weeks now and they are both doing well. It helped a lot that I was able to wean Piper with Moo so she had a buddy, Moo coped so well being away from Willow. Although silly me left the gate open and they both got out and went straight to Willow and Moo had a feed and Willow has milk again, but we are back on track again now.  :)
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: dcwolcott on March 20, 2018, 07:05:09 AM
Sounds like some forward progress.  Good job!
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Carly Rae on May 01, 2018, 02:30:30 AM
Hi! I have another question  :)

I've noticed when Moo walks there's a clicking sound in her hock/stifle area? I think its in both legs but I can only seem to see it in her left leg, but I can hear clicking from both legs. She walks fine and everything.

I looked on the internet and I read about locked stifles? Although I can't find anything about the clicking noises. I'm not 100% sure what it is, it doesn't seem to bother her though.
Anyone know what it may be?  :)
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Ryan on May 01, 2018, 06:50:26 PM
It sounds like locking stifles to me. There are plenty of treatment options , surgery being one.

Have you managed to wean her ? Hows willow doing ? :)
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Carly Rae on May 01, 2018, 07:56:43 PM
From what Ive read shes far from needing surgery.  :) I've read about ways to treat it yourself. But I just wanted to check incase it may have been something else- the clicking made me unsure  :)

Shes weaned off Willow now and they are both doing well. Willow is packing on her weight well, hopefully she keeps it on through winter.  :)

 She has much more energy now. With Moo somedays she could only manage a slow walk, and she would often lay down. The other day when the neighbour bought in new horses she was galloping around the paddock with the others  ;D  Its great seeing her back to her old self.
Title: Re: Moo
Post by: Ryan on May 01, 2018, 09:00:28 PM
Surgery would be for really bad cases, your right  :)  There is plenty of exercises you can do and some will grow out of it.

That's ace , I knew she would "Pick up" once moo was weaned. :):):)