The Castle Rock MARE-TERNITY WARD
Message Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chanda on November 09, 2016, 04:15:31 PM
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Couldn't find a previous topic, but I know feed has been discussed, but perhaps I've seen it in different threads and just not all in one place.
I've been struggling with feeds, largely due to where I live and the choices available to me.
I've fed Purina in the past, never really cared for it. Fed Nutrena didn't really care for it (and tried the new Safe Choice Special Care, it didn't go over well with my crew and a sensitive mare got footy on it). I've fed Progressive Nutrition, love it til it was priced out of my budget. Fed Woody's, it's a regional feed, loved the senior product, it became unavailable locally (company can be difficult to work with, but good product, just no longer available locally, and I don't want to ship and store a ton, which they do ship to individuals, but it's by the ton). I've tried feeding oats with vit/min mix, my toplines went to hell. I fed Running Horse Trail Mix for about 2 years around 2012 (when mares were pregnant the first time, they did well), it became unavailable locally and not easy to get since I had to make a special trip to a different town for it. I've been feeding Equis feeds, a regional brand, for the last couple years; it's ok, but some aren't doing as well on it and the girls didn't hold up as well nursing as they did previously. Just found out a couple weeks ago, that WRS has picked up the Running Horse brand; they are located down in Billings (6 hours from here), but deliver monthly to our area, so I'm going to try it again and at least put the foals on the mare/foal formula, Che` on their senior, and try the Trail Mix again on the mares. The geldings on going to stay on the Equis, as will Topper; as it's available local and I can just buy what I need, when I need it. [Che` might go back to their senior, but will give the Running Horse senior a good try and see how he does on it; he's gotten picky and not looking as good on the Equis as I think he should. If it doesn't work out, he can go back on the equis senior.]
I don't remember so many trials and tribulations feeding the saddle horses, but sure have had a run with feeding the minis. [Perhaps it's partially the lack of choices around here, perhaps I just read too much here on the internet and need to get a life, instead of dwelling here wondering if I'm doing it right now. Who knows, but perhaps going back to the Running Horse will be the ticket.]
They definitely don't do well with just our hay, they need more than it provides, that's for darn sure.
Not consistently, but you can also throw in some hay pellets and beet pulp in the mix.
Guess that's all for now.
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I've always used Purina. I fed their Omolene 300 which is their mare/foal feed for the third trimester for the mares and for 1 year for the youngsters, before changing the young horses to Purina Equine Junior. I also used their Purina Equine Junior for weight gain on any adult that wasn't really a senior, if their weight dropped. I liked their Senior Feed for my old retirees, as it was easy to digest. I also used to use their Ultium on my stallions during breeding season, as most of mine were fence runners or pacers and would lose their toplines if they weren't pastured with a lady. And with 15 stallions here, I didn't use each stallion each year, so had to keep the pacers satisfied in their bachelor herd.
I also used Purina Free Balance 12:12 on pregnant mares, as it contains a VERY high selenium content, which is so critical for healthy foals, and I live in a region with NO natural selenium in the ground.
All horses were fed pure alfalfa hay, and when that wasn't available I fed alfalfa cubes or pellets. So, they were always getting that boost of protein.
Never had much luck with beet pulp. Mine hated it, but some people absolutely swear by it. With mine, they would actually walk away from the food, and it would "rot" in the Florida sun, and stink. Then, I'd have horses that would drop weight rather than eat it with their food, and they'd try and live just on the alfalfa. Never worked, so I just ditched it.
Be interested to see what others used. I tried a Purina "generic" that had a 6% fat content with a 12-14% protein content, and that worked, but then my Purina store discontinued it, so went back to the expensive "name" feeds they carried. I'm in such a small town, there wasn't much to choose from, just the Purina store and TSC.
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I'm in such a small town, there wasn't much to choose from, just the Purina store and TSC.
That's better than my selection. I'd love it if I had a local TSC; but my "local" TSC is 150 miles one-way. I tried their Dumor alfalfa pellets last time I made a trip, and Che` really likes them (alfalfa is a good appetite booster for him, so try to "save" it for when he's being picky, since I can't get good pellets locally).
[I can get alfalfa dehy from the elevator, it's their brand alfalfa pellets. Che` does not like it; but everyone else eats them just fine. Che` likes the Dumor pellets from TSC, Standlee pellets, and a regional brand (still 4 hours from here to get them). Good thing he doesn't each much of them, so I can buy a few bags when I go somewhere and hoard them for when I need htem.]
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Not sure Ill be much help to you Chanda being so far away, but I very much agree with you , much easier to feed the biggies than the little ones.
My little ones Live on good quality "grass and clover " hay and I also mix in alfalfa hay during winter months. I only hard feed my little ones over a short period during the coldest months. It doesnt snow here , so there is always some pick available on top of the hay/grain they get. They always have access to a mineral block. I have to be very careful in regards to the change in weather here and it often plays a part in what Im feeding. When the sun appears after winter here , the sugar content goes through the roof in the grass , so I have to limit pasture grazing intake to a minimum for a few months until it starts to die off, especially with my laminitic mare.
During the very short period over winter that my little ones are fed grain , I give them a small mixture of alfalfa chaff , Xtra Cool ( no sugar) and a small bran mash is mixed in as a treat every so often.
I try to steer clear of apples and carrots , I find that Pumpkin is alot lower in sugar and puts an amazing "Shine" on their coats.
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Ryan,
Thanks.
Not really looking for answers, as much as discussion. It's good to know others have found the biggies easier to feed.
Do you just give them pumpkin rind and all? Or just the fleshy part? Now is about the only time of year pumpkins are readily available since it's a fall veggie. Might have to give it a try with my kids and see if anyone likes it; only a couple liked watermelon.
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I usually just give them the fleshy part. I had one not so keen on it in the beginning, but they all seems to like it now.
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What are your thoughts on feeding probiotics? What factors determine if you feed them?
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I feed Nutrena Empower Balance. Its a ration balancer. I have little pasture so I feed hay year round. 2 flakes am & 2 flakes pm in the stall.
My minis get 1 cup NEB, 1 cup alfalfa pellets, 2 x daily, am & pm. Kate gets 2 cups NEB, 2 cups alfalfa pellets am & pm.
In the winter I soak a 3 lb scoop of beet pulp in hot water, by the time it swells its cooled off. I give this in the evenings my horses love it, and i like the added to maintain weight, water consumption, and fiber.
I am a label reader, and found in our area I get the best nutrition from the Empower vs grain feeds without the risk associated with grains, such as excessive weight gain, lamanitis, or having to feed less and not meeting the nutritional needs. Esp with easy keepers.
Legacy is a harder keeper than the girls, so I add 1/2 a cup of Nutrena Empower boost, am & pm. Its a higher fat formula(35-45%?) and can be fed with the balance.
On a side note, The balance has a probiotic added, though after de worming I always give mine a dose of probiotics.( day after) I also add a scoop of sand clear to my ponies diet once a month,as a preventative measure.
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Yes, that sand clear (or straight pysillium granules) is critical here in Florida, too. Since my horses were on dry lots, I did the pysillium granules to everyone for and entire week a month.
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Agree, I also do a week on Pysillium. I have good soil here , which isn't overly sandy , so the same regime as Diane , but every two months here.
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Dang it, started mixing in the new feed today, and wouldn't you know it, Bliss doesn't like it, she didn't eat her breakfast. The new feed is extruded and smells a bit like pink bubblegum. Everyone else that started on it, ate just fine. I'll try to figure out a way to give her separate feed for a couple days, so she can still eat the old feed and work on getting used to the new feed (perhaps I'll top dress their soaked beetpulp and alfalfa this afternoon).
Delivery guy was here before 8am, surprised the crap out of me, usually they don't make it til late morning or afternoon, since they start their day in town, and I'm an hour from town (any town).
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Yeah try mixing something in with it. I hope she grows to like it quickly. Its a bit like trying to hide the veggies in kids meals :)
Pink bubblegum :) Sounds like it smells great.
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Yeah try mixing something in with it. I hope she grows to like it quickly. Its a bit like trying to hide the veggies in kids meals :)
Pink bubblegum :) Sounds like it smells great.
It's being mixed with the feed she's been eating her whole life, but she sure didn't want that new flavor this morning. I'll still try a little top dressed on tonight's mush and see what happens.
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Digging this up again.
Diane, did you soak your alfalfa cubes when you used them? [I think we've discussed this before, but might as well put it here in the feeding thread.]
Bliss never did like the new feed, so I put her on the easy to get senior feed, which she eats most of the time, but went on strike after I moved Spotty. I bought some the CoOp's alfalfa dehy (tiny pellets) to mix in her feed, and she loves them; so will probably give her 1/3 alfalfa dehy, 2/3 senior for her meal.
The girls have been on the extruded feed exclusively for over a month now, and seem to be doing well. I think those that needed to gain weight have (still a bit to go, but feeling better).
Che` seems to love the new extruded senior feed, and readily eats his meals.
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Chanda that's great news!
I fed alfalfa cubes both ways. I had ponies that wouldn't touch them soaked and others that really wouldn't eat them dry. I did watch them when I fed them dry... I tried to find cubes that weren't so hard (could break into smaller pieces by hand) but that hasn't always been so easy.
Standlee has done a good job advertising in our area - their products are about all you can get. But I find both their pellets and their cubes to be harder for our guys to eat UNLESS they are soaked.
Our old stallion would not eat any soaked alfalfa cubes OR Nutrena Safe Choice Sr wet, but would eat Southern States Alfalfa pellets and Sr feed wet or dry his last 60 days...
All of our ponies both like and do better on Southern States Alfalfa pellets - wet or dry. They are "softer", more crumbly, than others are (they are also more dusty when you empty the bag or reach the bottom). They come in 50# bags still and cost less than Standlee's, so that's nice!
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We've always liked the Standlee pellets, they've gotten harder lately, the grass or mix pellets are softer than straight alfalfa. At the recommendation of the TSC worker last spring, I tried the Dumor alfalfa pellets, they are softer (at least the bags I bought).
Those alfalfa dehy pellets I get from the Co-op are hard, but quite a bit smaller than the other brands.
So far, no cubes available to me are soft enough to feed dry, so I don't use them.
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The ones I got you could break up in your hand, so I didn't soak them at all, since they were so easily broken. By the time I got to the bottom of the bag, all there were was crumpled leaves and no cubes, since they broke so easily.
I did buy some once that were hard as rocks. Those I did soak enough that they swelled and could be broken by me in my hand. I didn't get them mushy, just soft enough so that they could be easily broken apart.
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Wish I could get cubes that nice, Diane.
Closest I could get today was Omolene 200 (was looking for the 300), but I mostly want it as a taste tempter to get her to hopefully consistently eat the readily available feeds I can get locally, so will probably be just fine. We'll probably try it starting Sunday, we got back too late tonight to unload, and I probably won't feel like it before morning chores.
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I used to get my Alfalfa Cubes from the Purina Store, and I think they were the Purina Mills or Grainland brand? I remember getting some that I think came out of Canada that were fabulous, but can't remember the brand name. I know I tried some from Tractor Supply but don't remember liking them much as they were a bit too hard and needed some brief soaking to make them easy to "crunch". Can't be sure, but think they were the Standlee?
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I'll probably stick with the hay pellets to boost quality of my hay, and not bother with cubes.
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Do you mean Alfalfa pellets, or can you also get hay pellets? I always fed Alfalfa exclusively, so never really noticed (or looked) for anything else? So, even this "old dog" is learning! :)
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Do you mean Alfalfa pellets, or can you also get hay pellets? I always fed Alfalfa exclusively, so never really noticed (or looked) for anything else? So, even this "old dog" is learning! :)
You can get straight grass hay pellets, mix grass/alfalfa pellets, straight alfalfa pellets, alfalfa/oat pellets and I'm sure more now. I've mostly seen timothy or orchardgrass pellets, but you can also get Bermuda pellets; and any of them mixed with alfalfa.
Standlee makes straight alfalfa, timothy and orchardgrass pellets, and an alfalfa/timothy blend (don't think there is an orchardgrass/alfalfa mix, at least not from Standlee). Ametza (a California company) makes Bermuda/alfalfa pellets (I get these for Topper's toy, as they are bigger, so work better in the toy); I've seen others on their website, but TSC only carries the blend. Mountain Sunrise makes: timothy, Bermuda, oat hay, alfalfa, T/A, B/A, O/A, timothy/alf/brome plus a couple fortified formulas. And, there are other brands, but these are the ones I've researched the most. Ontario Dehy in Canada makes a Timothy Balance cube, it's a timothy and beetpulp cube that has been fortified to be a balanced diet in a bag, specially formulated with under 10% sugar/starch for metabolic horses, only need to add salt, Vit E and iodine to make a complete diet.
I really like a timothy/alfalfa blend, but the Bermuda/alfalfa blend is fine. Locally, I can get the tiny alfalfa pellets from the CoOp, so if I'm just boosting diet, they are just fine; if I'm replacing hay, then I prefer the blends (and I have to out of area for them).
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Wow! I had no idea. I was an Alfalfa guru, and liked it for the extra protein, the tummy soother feature and just the added boost. But, I had no idea there were so many things to choose from. No wonder people get confused!
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Wow! I had no idea. I was an Alfalfa guru, and liked it for the extra protein, the tummy soother feature and just the added boost. But, I had no idea there were so many things to choose from. No wonder people get confused!
The grass hays don't make as tight of pellets or cubes, so do tend to crumble a bit more in the bag. The crumbliness might be why it took so long for them to be options. I don't think there were as many choices even just a decade or so ago.
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Well, this ought to be interesting... Put a whole round bale in the feeder in the shelter where my three smallest reside; that would be Che`, Baybe and Tilly. The hay is grass CRP (conservation reserve program, so only cut every 4-5 years, so lots of dead grass); great for the donkey but a bit low in nutrition for the horses, so the horses get supplemental alfalfa pellets. It should last them like 3 months, but they'll probably destroy the bale in like a month (pull off the bale without eating at least half of it).
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I used to do this in every pasture especially during the winter months. I would set mine up on a pallet off the ground, and keep the top covered with a tarp (because here in Florida we get rain at the most inappropriate times. They usually did pretty good with it, as I'd cut away only the bottom section of the "netting" that kept the bale together, and they could munch to their hearts content, and ultimately the bale fell down into itself.
I also, as everyone knows, fed straight alfalfa each and every day morning and night since my horses were on dry lots (not much grass grew in my pastures because of the weather), and allowed 1-2 flakes of alfalfa for each horse at every feeding depending on the size of the flake.
I'm betting they should do fine!
Sorry, I missed your reply yesterday, I was out of town babysitting and forgot to bring my computer with me. DUH!
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That's ok. Just rambling and thinking and hopefully waiting on a Baybe baby.
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We are ALL waiting on a Baybe baby!!!!! LOL ;pray ;pray ;pray
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ryan,
Should we pin this, or start a new thread with more basics?
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Well, looks like I might change up my feed again. The Trail Mix isn't working for the mares like it did in the past, they are thin in the ribs and bit bony on top. I ordered a ration balancer to top dress their feed for the added protein, so if I'm going back to a ration balancer to top up their feed, I might as well try them on the Equis Complete or senior that the local store carries, so I don't have to special order. I can get the Progressive ProAdvantage grass formula from the place that delivers monthy or a local guy when he isn't having delivery issues. All else fails, I can switch to Buckeye Gro N Win, and order from Chewy.com. I don't know why or understand why I have so much trouble feeding the minis, especially the mares, but I sure seem to. The geldings are on senior with vit/min supplement to cover the bases since they only get a small amount, they are all chubby with good hair coat, but they are only about 1 bale into this year's hay, so may need an increase in pellets to cover what the drought year hay lacks. The little stallion is doing very well on the equis senior, probably just needs more of it, now that he's not eating as much hay as he used to; but I do give him some soaked hay cubes (he quids what long-stem hay he does eat).
I was going to add beet pulp to their winter ration to improve their fiber quality and help with hydration, so I bought a bag of beet pulp, and it smelled off and the color and texture was wrong. Called the place I bought it, and didn't get much of a response, they were like a wet noodle, so I'm feeding it to my bum calf, he doesn't seem to mind it. After talking about it with a friend, decided that it was probably overcooked in the pelleting process, so it's essentially burnt; that doesn't explain the texture, but would explain the smell and might explain the color. I might try beet pulp again, but it won't be what's available locally. [We are shipping calves in about 10 days, so I'll be able to stock up at a TSC. I have a coupon for Standlee products, so will use it before it expires the end of the month.] Wish "good" feeds were available locally, it would make my life so much easier.
Guess that's all for now.
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I got 10 bales of Tiffton 44 (a type of coastal bermuda hay) for Spanky early October. I knew it had been left to dry too long (looked like last year hay!) but he's just starting in the hay business and I wanted to experiment.
Welllllllll........that hasn't turned out to be such a good idea. :-\ :-\ Spanky is all ribs, hip bones and bony toplines. Coat is rough and I'm going to have to treat for rain rot. I've only had issues with his coat when he is too thin, so I know that's what it is. So I'm going to have to figure out a way to bathe him and dry him out quick. I'm going to check out the bathing room at Tractor Supply (TSC) and see how it's set up. If they have a Turbo Drier, I may just try to do him there. I'll let y'all know how that works out.
As for hay, I think I'll go back to buying from the feed store, since I have just the one mini AT THIS MOMENT.... >:D >:D >:D My husband has finally agreed to consider a round bale. (More secret hand rubbing and chuckling..... >:D >:D) If it looks and smells like last years did, I'll use that as my base, add alfalfa and continue with the senior feed that I haven't yet finished. My plan is to start conditioning him now, so I can get to a couple of rated shows next year. I really want to try him in the stock horse division. If it wasn't required to show in a harness class, I'd keep him for the draft classes.
I'll update here as we go along with the new feed plan. Remind me to post some progress pictures.
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I got 10 bales of Tiffton 44 (a type of coastal bermuda hay) for Spanky early October. I knew it had been left to dry too long (looked like last year hay!) but he's just starting in the hay business and I wanted to experiment.
Welllllllll........that hasn't turned out to be such a good idea. :-\ :-\ Spanky is all ribs, hip bones and bony toplines. Coat is rough and I'm going to have to treat for rain rot.
The Bermuda hays can be too low in protein, especially for minis; but luckily, you can boost protein and nutrients by adding alfalfa in any form. You're lucky to have a TSC close by, they have all sorts of bagged forages that can boost nutrients; they have chopped, baled, pellets and cubes in a variety of "flavors". We have drought hay this year, so it's very poor, but since it was a drought, just so glad to have hay. Being you only have one mini, you could conceivably buy all your hay/forage at TSC; yes it would cost more than local hay, but you would know what you are getting, and have a good chance at refund or exchange if you get a bad batch. Not all TSCs carry the different varieties of forages, but every store should have some variety (or possibly be able to order in - I think anything on-line can be ordered and shipped to store, and I think that is free).
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Good luck with your shipping cows! Stay safe!
Too bad you're having such difficulty with the girls. I hope you can figure it out without having to do the special ordering, just to make it easier on you. ;pray
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Good luck with your shipping cows! Stay safe!
Too bad you're having such difficulty with the girls. I hope you can figure it out without having to do the special ordering, just to make it easier on you. ;pray
Thank you.
And, nothing is simple around here and it sucks. [Just hope I don't have problems with the usual store, my MIL went rounds with them over an issue, I wasn't there when it happened, but it was ugly (she's not a liar, so pretty sure it happened about as she described). I just want to buy feed and go on with my life. :o ]
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Chanda, Hope your girls pick up soon. Must be hard for you, with ordering specific feeds. I wonder why your having issues with the girls and not the boys ?
Julie , hopefully Spanky picks up quickly. I agree that a good base hay is an absolute must. I couldn't be happier with all my horses this year, big and small. My base hay this year was a Grass and Clover blend. Added alfalfa to feeding throughout winter and "everyone" is looking amazing. The grass has gone "bang" here over the last month so my wallet has gone "Ahhhhhhhhhhhh" :)
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Chanda, Hope your girls pick up soon. Must be hard for you, with ordering specific feeds. I wonder why your having issues with the girls and not the boys ?
The boys tolerate more grazing, the older girls get foot sore if on grass too long, and with the drought this year, the droughty grass was worse for them than our normal grass. Two of the girls foaled last year, and just never quite recovered as nicely as they have in the past. Mostly having topline issues, which is protein deficiency (and of course exercise). [The boys "pasture" got watered, as it's downhill from where Shayne fills the water tanks that are used to fill the sprayer and that we used to haul water to the cows for two months, takes forever to fill, so they always overflow some, thus watering the boys' pasture, well part of it anyway.]
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Hopefully the droughts just about over for you. Where do you ship your cattle too? Is this something you need to have done by the time the snow starts to arrive ?
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Hopefully the droughts just about over for you. Where do you ship your cattle too? Is this something you need to have done by the time the snow starts to arrive ?
No, snow or not doesn't matter, they have sales year round, just that the majority of weaned calf sales are in the fall through winter. We've put the calves on the truck and have a blizzard the next day.
Drought is predicted through the end of the year. Sure hope it breaks, or we're screwed, the pastures are in rough shape, they really need a good snow cover this winter with a slow melt in the spring, along with some well times spring rains.
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Well Ive got my fingers and toes crossed for you. :)