The Castle Rock MARE-TERNITY WARD
Message Boards => Follow Our Growing Foals => Topic started by: Chanda on October 11, 2016, 03:47:18 PM
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Not sure if this is the right category, but it's about weaning foals, so about foals growing up...
How do you decide when it's the right time to wean your foals? I'm not talking a date, per se, but what signs do they show you that they are ready to be separated. I typically wait til 5-6 months old, sometimes longer; both my foals are creeping up on 5 months, and need to start thinking about the logistics of weaning before winter really hits and it's harder to rearrange pens. They are currently eating feed with their dams, so I'm not sure how much either eats, but both dive into their dams' dish.
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With the biggies over the years , we always waited until 5-6 months, unless however weaning was necessary slightly earlier. This was usually because the mare was struggling to keep weight on and we were confident that the foal was ready.
This is a great topic Chanda as I believe people need to take into consideration some of the points you have made in the opening post. Winter as we all know is that time of the year where it can be a little harder to keep the weight on. For me , I have less paddocks to graze and limited grass and the wettest paddocks are out of use, so my minis spend winter in the same paddock.
Sometimes you will find that a mare and foal will wean each other, the foal will noticeably spend less time with their dam and when other horses/minis are around will develop a new "group of friends" and most of the time the foal doesnt even realize that their dam has been moved and the foal weaned.
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And, my other logistical problem, I have two foals, 1 colt and 1 filly; so they'll need to be separated before spring, just in case (we don't want an oops). I pretty sure Spotty can go over with the geldings and I can set up panels for introductions, he's already met them through a fence when they were still grazing, but grazing ended when I went out of town for 5 days (too much trouble to ask Shayne to let them in and out of the drylot while he was working).
Bliss can go in with Dolly in the pen adjoining the mare pen; might not be ideal, but it wouldn't be the first time I've wintered a filly with her dam.
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I used to wean around 4 months, and since I always had a big crew to wean together, things went very easy. But, heading to winter, I can see the need to wean soon. I had two mares that used to wean their foals themselves, and always before my 4 month mark. I was always surprised to go out to separate the foals, and find these two mares with no bags, and the foals totally weaned. Used to be so surprising for me.
Keep us posted with what you decide. They are such little beauties!
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Don't think Bliss is quite ready yet. Brought Bonny in to the barn aisle to trim her hooves, left Bliss standing with her head in the hay feeder, as soon as she figured out mom was gone, she hollered and came running. And, was fidgety til I let her in the barn and put her in a stall at Bonny's head.
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I like the 5 month mark to wean. Usually my foals are sold when that time comes so hasnt been a big issue here, but next years foals are going to be more difficult as I have late foals next year.
To me weaning is such a difficult time.
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I like the 5 month mark to wean. Usually my foals are sold when that time comes so hasnt been a big issue here, but next years foals are going to be more difficult as I have late foals next year.
To me weaning is such a difficult time.
I'm not very good as selling, so all of my foals have been weaned here.
Single mini filly wintered with her dam, as everything was under tons of snow. Three colts weaned in a pen adjacent to their dams. And, now a filly and a colt to wean. I know I'll get it figured out; like figuring out today that Bliss isn't quite ready to separate. May have to separate Spotty, so Tana can gain some weight, she's not horribly thin and the addition of a ration balancer and some rice bran helped, but she is still thinner than I like. [Working on the logistics of getting everyone a sand clear product; the mares are sharing with babies, so until they are separated for meals, trying the sand clear product wont' be feasible. the others are all on day three of hteir 7 day protocol.]
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I understand!
I use a ration balancer too. I use Nutrena Empower, what brand do you use? When my mares start to get down a bit from nursing I add a bit more balance and add in some Nutrena boost.
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I understand!
I use a ration balancer too. I use Nutrena Empower, what brand do you use? When my mares start to get down a bit from nursing I add a bit more balance and add in some Nutrena boost.
I like the Progressive Nutrition grass formula balancer since I feed mostly grass hay. I was feeding it exclusively for several years, til it priced out of my budget at $35/bag a few years ago, and I was going through 3 per month with all the minis and 1 saddle horse on it. I had to switch feeds, I found a 14% pellet that is a fed in small amounts and it works pretty good for maintenance and early pregnancy; but isn't quite enough for lactation. Now that I only have the minis, I may go back to the ration balancer, but not sure I want to go for that $35/bag, especially since I still need to supplement our hay with a calorie source; but might continue to top dress for those that need the boost.
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I pretty much agree with what everyone else has stated.
I've weaned as early as 2 months (special case - our filly was put with a 2 week old orphan horse filly - 2 miles down the road. For whatever reason, we never considered taking the mare down there with her...don't think the owner/boarding barn wanted to care for the mare as well, but don't remember?) and this year, as late as 9 months.
I've had mares wean their own foals (YES!), 1 mare that would not only nurse her current year foal but also several others of different ages (oldest one year was a 2 yr old! and they'd all previously been weaned and several had been off property and shown, LOL.) and others that weren't easy but weren't very difficult either. This is the first year that I've noticed so many being able to reach thru a gate or even thru the cattle panel squares and the dams' will sidle up to the fence and let them nurse. It's amazing! I almost feel sorry for both Kechi and Jynx - as they won't be able to do that. But feel it's better for Kechi right now - best group arrangement so that hopefully she doesn't get hurt again. IF Kechi goes back downhill, I may return Jynx to her or may put her with her part of the time, such as at night.
All 3 of our 2016 foals have now been separated from their dams (Jynx yesterday - the other 2, 2 weeks ago or 1 week before the storm hit).
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I never had any problems weaning, but sometimes I think it's more stressful for "us" than them! LOL
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Meadow was ready the day she was born. Neither her or Charm care where the other is. I have brought in my gelding who is with them, and meadow follows him everywhere - Charm doesn't even look up from the grass to see if shes there. She lets her suckle still and they interact with grooming etc but i don't think either is dependant on the other. Charm gets a tiny bit stressed if shes the one in the stable and meadow is taken away, but then she did the same thing when meadow was not born so its just her own stable stress. I still don't want to wean until i feel its right. Charms dropping a little, and im feeding to counteract that, but Meadow is only 4 months so its not near time yet.
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Hi Chanda. What did you decide to do on the weaning, or is it still a work in progress so to speak? If you keep Bliss with her dam do you think she'll self wean over the winter or will it pull Bonny down too much? Sounds like Spotty will make a pretty easy transition into the gelding group though.
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Hi Chanda. What did you decide to do on the weaning, or is it still a work in progress so to speak? If you keep Bliss with her dam do you think she'll self wean over the winter or will it pull Bonny down too much? Sounds like Spotty will make a pretty easy transition into the gelding group though.
Working on it, now. Trying to figure out the best choice for me and the horses; want them weaned, and easy on me.
I'm going to try moving a few panels around, and see if it'll work if they are still in sight of each other, but can't nurse. If it doesn't, I'll move the mares around to a pen we use for working cows, and leave the babies with the other mares. Tana definitely needs time to gain some weight before winter really hits, Bonny gained some when I increased feed awhile ago.
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Well, perhaps night time isn't the best time to try, but the foals are separated; technically, the mares are separated from the foals and other mares, as I put up a mesh panels so the babies couldn't reach through the panels, and put up two other panels to block the alley, so while they can see each other, they shouldn't be able to reach through and try to nurse.
I put out hay in the new paddock, the mares went right in and went to eating, the foals ran back and forth for 5 minutes and then joined the other mares around the hay feeder and went to eating. Now, all I need to do is figure out how much feed to give each baby, they've just been sharing with their dams so far, so I really don't know just how much they've been getting. [But, Spotty is taking enough away from Tana both by nursing and directly from the pan, that Tana is thinner than she's ever been, even when she nursed Monte, 4 years ago.]
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Morning feed was easy enough, although Spotty was a little upset once in Tana's stall for feed by himself. Both babies ate all their breakfast, need to figure out just how much to give them. I'll continue with the mare's mix for the moment, but will be getting a foal feed soon (special order, so it'll be a couple weeks); then I can just give them a simple scoop, rather than mixing.
Spotty seems more upset about weaning than Bliss, which surprises me a bit. Will eventually move Spotty over to the gelding pen, but need to figure out the logistics of feeding all the boys over there.
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I don't think they were hot, warm to the touch but it's cold out; the mares' udders were firm and full tonight, if it keeps up, I'll warm compress, but will give it a day or two first before I worry. The mares seem pretty oblivious to their foals being removed from their sides, they are solely interested in eating; both are thin, so I have not reduced their feed.
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Sounds like things are working to plan for you. I hope Tana picks up some weight before winter sets in :)
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Sounds like things are working to plan for you. I hope Tana picks up some weight before winter sets in :)
I hope so, too. Good food without lactating should hopefully take care of it.
Spotty had a bit of a hissy fit this morning at breakfast, trying to escape his stall; no damage done and he ate all his breakfast.
Inch or more of rain yesterday, so corrals are muddy mess.
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Muddy corrals....kinda puts you in a (started to say "spot" LOL ) bad place doesn't it? Leave them in and rake stalls. Turn them out and rake muddy legs. Glad to hear he didn't get hurt though. Bliss used up all the foals of 2016 ER budget already.
I hope that when (if?) Spotty sells his new family will join us here so that we can continue to enjoy him.
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Muddy corrals....kinda puts you in a (started to say "spot" LOL ) bad place doesn't it? Leave them in and rake stalls. Turn them out and rake muddy legs. Glad to hear he didn't get hurt though. Bliss used up all the foals of 2016 ER budget already.
I hope that when (if?) Spotty sells his new family will join us here so that we can continue to enjoy him.
Luckily, the corrals dried fairly quick, so not too bad now, just muddy spots, rather than all over.
Kids are doing good with weaning. Bonny is getting back her normal figure. Tana is still thin but I think gaining. Both still have firm bags, but seem to be slowly decreasing in size.
Yes, Bliss did use up the 2016 budget for accidents.
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I was always a "creep feeder" of my foals. I took a corner, set up fence posts only separated enough so a foal could walk through -- not the adults -- and left food out for the foals that they could nibble on to their hearts content. I did that until they were a year old. They seemed to do well, keeping good weight and learning not to "wolf" down their food, so kept digestion problems to a minimum. Since their tummies are smaller than the adults, it let them take in what they wanted comfortably, and go back when hunger called. Just an idea.
Glad Bonny is getting her normal figure back, and Tana is gaining!! I wouldn't worry about their udders. The discomfort will go quickly and udders will shrink. I just always did a quick "feel" to be sure no mastitis was felt, and nothing else. Keep us posted on how they are doing!
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Glad to hear the weaning is coming along well Chanda :)
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I was always a "creep feeder" of my foals. I took a corner, set up fence posts only separated enough so a foal could walk through -- not the adults -- and left food out for the foals that they could nibble on to their hearts content. I did that until they were a year old. They seemed to do well, keeping good weight and learning not to "wolf" down their food, so kept digestion problems to a minimum. Since their tummies are smaller than the adults, it let them take in what they wanted comfortably, and go back when hunger called. Just an idea.
Glad Bonny is getting her normal figure back, and Tana is gaining!! I wouldn't worry about their udders. The discomfort will go quickly and udders will shrink. I just always did a quick "feel" to be sure no mastitis was felt, and nothing else. Keep us posted on how they are doing!
I had a creep feeder for my full-size foals, but with my range of mini sizes, it would be hard to make the gap small enough to keep the mares out and let the foals in; when there is a 33" mare in the mix with 36-38" mares. And, I just don't seem to have a good spot to put one with my set-up.
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Glad to hear the weaning is coming along well Chanda :)
So far, so good with the babies, can't wait to order the new feed (used previously, but became unavailable, and is now available from a different source); the mares looked so good on it with their first foals, so hopefully it can bring htem back and they will probably stay on it as long as the new source has it available. The current feed is working fine for the geldings, so they'll stay on it, as will Topper, and probably the mares that were open this year. Che` is going to try the "new" brand senior and the skinny girls and babies are going on that brand as well, just a different formula.
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New feed on order, will be here next week. Can't wait to get them started on a proper foal feed, and have them on it at least for the winter, then I might put them on the senior with Che`, so I don't have so many different feeds in the feed room.
Can't start them too early, Bliss is a little light on top, so getting them on the foal feed should help. Probably should have done it sooner, but foal feed is special order around here, and that's a pain (the order doesn't always go through and I have to wait and wait).
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I have a bag of stud balancer and a bag of condition cubes. I try to give foal the stud balancer cause she's not struggling in any way lol but charm could use a few extra calories. Foal will eat charms before her own tho so now I just throw it all in and let them pick out of the same bowl lol
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Mares' bags are finally going down, and they have two halves again, instead of one overinflated bag. Bonny is picking up weight better than Tana. the new feed arrived bright and early this morning, delivery guy was here before 8 (I'm an hour from any town, so not used to such an early arrival). Started mixing in today, and I can't wait for the change over to be done, so I only have to scoop out of one container to feed and no mixing (I've been mixing to try to keep the mares' weights up, so I've top dressed with a ration balancer and rice bran). Bliss isn't liking the new feed, so didn't eat breakfast; will try sprinkling a little on the soaked feed tonight and see if that helps. [New feed is extruded and smells like pink bubblegum, at least that's what it smells like to me.]
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Top dressed Bliss' breakfast with a bit of the senior that's in the mix they've been on, she ate more of her breakfast, but still left some. I'll keep top dressing and see if that works, and hope eventually she just eats it.
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Was almost going to say I forgot to check her dish today, but I did check it and she had eaten pretty much all of her breakfast, only spilling a few pieces. I'll keep top dressing with the senior as I transition from the old mix to the new feed and see how it goes. Can't wait to be done with the transition, I hate the week or so of mixing for transitioning feeds. Glad I'm not changing the geldings or Topper.
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Glad to hear she is starting to warm to the new feed :)
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Glad to hear she is starting to warm to the new feed :)
Me, too. I'll keep top dressing at least until I'm done switching over, and then try her without the top dress, and cross my fingers by then she likes it plain.
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Been letting meadow and charm spend some time apart lately. Neither seem to care much! First time i did it, i let charm into the stall first then shut the door and she did call out once - no reply from meadow - and she immediately didn't care lol
Banners going home on the 7th Dec then im on vacation mid december so i plan to do the dastardly deed after i get home so i can be here to ensure meadow settles well enough. I plan to put charm in my split stable with Goldie, so both get correct feed etc. Thriller and meadow can be in the large stable together until it starts to warm up a little then she will be out with goldie (i would worry about him being too manly with her in spring...ive seen him "cover" charm before!)
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Bliss still isn't very fond of the new growth feed I bought, I've been mixing in the senior they were getting in their mix before trying to put them on straight growth (new feed); but she eats the senior and leaves part of the growth. I think after the two bags of growth are gone, I'll put them both back on just the senior, and maybe top dress it with some calf manna for the extra protein/nutrients it provides (or I'll get the other ration balancer I can get locally and use it to top dress). Everyone else is eating the new feed, all varieties are extruded and basically smell like bubble gum; so it is a Bliss issue not a feed issue. [Even picky Che` is chowing down on his new senior.]
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has she warmed to the feed yet ?
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has she warmed to the feed yet ?
Nope, she leaves pretty much all the new feed, so I just put her on the senior that was in the mare's mix, and top dress a bit with the growth (which she still doesn't eat much of). Once the growth is gone, both weanlings will just go back on the senior and if I need to I'll top dress with Calf Manna or other ration balancer.
whew we were one for day and a half, we shipped calves Sunday and the sale was today, so drove down last night to watch them sell today. Some of the nicest calves we've had in several years, and the price sucks right now; down quite a bit from two years ago. [Prices aren't coming back up fast enough to make it pay to keep calves any longer than we have to.]
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Now she's being picky about the senior that she previously ate just fine, but stole a bite or two of Misty's food (the extruded brand that she wouldn't eat in the growth formula). Today, I added some alfalfa pellets just see if they'd peak her interest, not really. She's eating hay like a trooper, plays with Spotty and runs around, so I really don't think it's ulcers, but could be. I'm ordering a small bag of Calf Manna to see if that'll entice her, seems most horses really like it, so good option to try.
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Sorry to hear that prices are down Chanda , that must suck seeing you and Shayne have been so happy with the quality of the calves. I hope prices pick up quickly for you :)
I wonder if theres anything you could mix into her feed to entice her into liking it ?
Anyone have really picky eaters ?
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I wonder if theres anything you could mix into her feed to entice her into liking it ?
Anyone have really picky eaters ?
That's why I ordered the calf manna, it's a ration balancer; you might call it the original ration balancer, it's been around for decades. It's flavored with Anise (licorice flavor), and most animals readily accept it.
https://www.mannapro.com/products/calf-manna
https://www.mannapro.com/products/equine/horses
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Tried something new while I wait for the Calf Manna.
I have some Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes, they are a low carb timothy and beet pulp blend cube with about 8% protein (might be 10%), they are designed for metabolic horses. Anyway, last night I crumbled some up, so I wouldn't have to soak cubes for just one. This morning, I gave her about 1 cup of senior feed, 1/4c rice bran pellets and about 2 cups of the crushed cubes (it was 3 cups total); she ate the majority of the mix (I didn't measure but less than 1 cup unfinished). So, hopefully, I have something she'll eat while we wait on the Calf Manna to give it a try; then, I'll need to figure out how much Calf Manna to mix in to make sure she gets what she needs. hopefully, she'll become less picky with age, and will eventually like the Trail Mix (extruded feed) all the mares on.
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The Calf Manna is not a hit with Bliss, she left most of her morning feed, so I'll stick with just the senior feed she was eating and see if the feed store has the tiny alfalfa pellets they carry in stock, and add those to boost the protein of her feed. What a stinker. Everyone else loves the Calf Manna, so they'll all get a little bit daily to use it up and not waste it.
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Poor Bliss, gave in to peer pressure! LOL Sounds like everyone else told her "Oh Bliss, don't eat that licorice smelling stuff. It's medicine. It's NAAASTY! You won't like it. Please, don't eat it!!" Knowing full well what would happen if she didn't. Silly horses. (Sillier Julie!!)
How's everyone in you part of the world surviving this brutal winter? Are the Tana and Bonny doing okay? I know they weren't where you wanted them to be going into this time of year. If I'm understanding the news correctly, it's been quite harsh in the west and upper western part of the country this year. Not dry and mild like here at all.
I've also been praying that your cattle operation isn't taking it on the chin. When does calving season start for you?
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Bonny and Tana are slowly gaining weight and getting to be where they should be; Bonny is getting there faster than Tana.
Bliss is happy to eat the senior feed, so that's all she gets, and Spotty will move onto that when the growth is gone (it'll keep my feed room a little simpler if I don't have growth for just one).
We've been just on the edge of the storms that have hit North Dakota so hard, so our temps have been a bit milder and we don't have near the snow they do.
Calf prices were down this year, which sucks. We start calving in March, usually, but always seem to have a couple earlier.
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I can't wait to see the calves this year!! No C:-) to keep from showing all the wonderful pictures of those cuties!
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I can't wait to see the calves this year!! No C:-) to keep from showing all the wonderful pictures of those cuties!
I'll just need to remember to bring out the camera to get the pictures.
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I'll just need to remember to bring out the camera to get the pictures.
Too bad they're not like human young...."let me take a selfie!" ;D ;D
Can you imagine??
Bossy: "How could you? Just..how COULD you? You saw them coming with the calf puller, and instead of throwing a horse blanket over me, you took a PICCIE!!"
Buttercup: "I, I, I.... ;D ;D ;D....I just couldn't resist! If you'd only SEEN your expression when that chain started clattering!! >:D >:D"
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LOL!!!
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OMG, Julie, ROFLMAO!!! Too funny!
Glad that you haven't been hit by the really nasty weather yet, Chanda. My sister says it's pretty miserable right now in Shelby (they live about 9 miles south of Shelby). Just above the Marias River on the East side of i-15.
Can't wait to see pics of the calves. I like seeing them. Glad we can post other pics while waiting for these babies to come along!!
I have no desire at this time to have cattle, though I've been asked. If we were to do any at all - think I'd have to look into grass fed mini cattle only. Not sure what breed. Probably going to stick to other small livestock and the ponies, though. We aren't yet quite ready to add the goats... They will also be a mini breed - either Kinder, Nigerian Dwarf or Pygmy.
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OMG, Julie, ROFLMAO!!! Too funny!
Glad that you haven't been hit by the really nasty weather yet, Chanda. My sister says it's pretty miserable right now in Shelby (they live about 9 miles south of Shelby). Just above the Marias River on the East side of i-15.
Shelby is that much closer to the mountains, and also in the path of the storms, that just seem to split and go around us; suits us just fine.